Philly-based Clean Air Council Aggravates and Aggregates
Last night, the Clean Air Council (a traveling road show out of Philadelphia ) rolled into tiny Herrickville, Bradford County, Pa. (population 676) to entertain. The excuse was a Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) hearing on Southwestern Energy’s application to install a new compressor at an existing station, a fairly innocuous project that, nonetheless, provided an opportunity for the Clean Air Council to fire another broadside against the natural gas industry. The usual suspects were there, including Matt Walker, his lawyer friend and the ubiquitous Rebecca Roter of Tinicum Township, Bucks County who always claims to be from nearby Kingsley.
The crowd was small with no more than a handful or two of local residents, several of whom spoke with New York accents, raising suspicions in this observer’s mind about just how local they really were. There were some serious-minded residents who attended and asked good questions but, with the exception of yours truly, the bulk of the testimony came from individuals who delivered remarks largely scripted by the Clean Air Council, which is trying to make the case for applying permit limits to groups of widely separated activities (called aggregation) so as to frustrate the development of natural gas infrastructure. Fortunately, Southwestern Energy’s presentation was strong and straightforward, directly countering and correcting most of the distortions that were put forth. Both the company and DEP fully answered all questions put to them, as the Clean Air Council huffed and puffed about aggregation.
Southwestern Presents the Facts
I’ve attended thousands of meetings and hearings over my career and, in the course of that experience, I’ve learned to recognize good witnesses. They are always short and to the point, relentlessly honest and without rancor. They are also confident enough to avoid gilding the lily and simply let the facts be the facts. Stewart Burrow of Southwestern fits this mold perfectly. He spelled out the company’s plans, took all questions and answered each in a matter-of-fact manner. Here are some examples:
The proposal, by Southwestern’s affiliated Angelina Gathering Company, is to add a fifth compressor to four previously approved units at the Greenzweig Compressor Station in Herrick Township. The additional station will provide additional power for transporting gas to a network of natural gas pipelines. Angelina submitted an application in April 2011, to DEP for construction of a natural gas fired compressor engine equipped with an oxidation catalyst. The proposed engine is a 1,775 horsepower, natural gas fired Caterpillar unit that will provide power to a natural gas compressor. It will increase the pressure of the incoming natural gas to the facility and discharge the gas at a higher pressure. The proposed engine will be equipped with a ”clean burn” electronic control system to control NOX emissions. Additionally, emissions from the proposed engine will be controlled by a GT Exhaust Systems oxidation catalyst unit. DEP has determined the potential emissions of all criteria air contaminants, including greenhouse gases, from the proposed project, will not exceed major emission thresholds. Therefore, the facility will be a minor facility under DEP’s classification system.
Clean Air Council Orchestrates Hearing
Such minor facilities have, in the past, typically not involved public hearings since there’s very little room for discretion with such an application — as opposed to a municipal land use application, for example, where multiple subjective factors are involved. Hearings are, nonetheless, permitted when a significant number of citizens request the agency hold one. The Clean Air Council has been on a campaign to request hearings on every application in an obvious attempt to frustrate natural gas development by slowing down infrastructure development. It appears at virtually every hearing with a small group of activists from hither and yon combined with whoever it can find locally to oppose projects. Turnout last night was very small, but it was clear the attendees had been coached at a pre-hearing workshop where they were instructed “how to craft comments and testimony to influence decisions on permits.”
Among the attendees who testified (10 in all) was a “small farmer” from Sidney Center, New York, (near Walton) named Howard Hannum, who complained that “living downwind is an absolute toxic disaster.” It wasn’t clear what Hannum, a Philadelphian who migrated to upstate New York, meant by “downwind” given that he lives 63 miles to the east in another state in the middle of the New York City watershed, where natural gas development is not being proposed. Nonetheless, it’s hard to imagine the emissions from one engine that will meet state permit requirements creating a toxic disaster anywhere. Could Mr. Hannum be exaggerating? He’s certainly known for going over the top as he did recently in the Town of Oneonta, New York, when he suggested a town board member with natural gas interests not only recuse himself from a meeting but “be removed from the meeting room and … have the door shut behind him.” Hannum is apparently not big on free speech when it comes to his opponents. Mr. Hannum is a signer of the Sovereign People’s Action Network “petition to criminalize hydro-fracking,” so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.
Rebecca Roter also provided testimony, after arriving late, about her “experience” living in nearby Kingsley for the last several years and watching the “rapid industrialization” of the area. Her testimony was essentially a rant against natural gas development but somehow she neglected to mention her home in Bucks County, where she and her Ferrari Club of America Treasurer husband Ben (formerly of Rodale’s), actually reside and send their children to school. She asked DEP representatives to “look at me and our children” and claimed they were being treated as “necessary sacrifices.” One suspects she might have been late because of the long drive from Philadelphia but it seems to never have occurred to her that the supposed “industrialization” of Herrickville might not have made as much of an impact on her and her children’s health as the conditions in Buck County, where she actually lives.
Southwestern’s Record and Science Will Rule the Day
One thing’s for sure: Roter is willing to go just about anywhere to support the work of the Clean Air Council, while also ingratiating herself with EPA on matters of Dimock methane migration. She, like Hannum, is a committed opponent of all things natural gas. Both are downstaters with places in the country. Nothing wrong with that, of course; we certainly don’t begrudge or resent them for their success. But let’s put to bed once and for all this notion of these folks being local. They’re not. And yet, they continue to represent themselves that way.
Nevertheless, when DEP acts on this permit, it will be looking at the science, and SWN’s plans and record, rather than the antics of the Clean Air Council. Here is an excerpt from the company’s website explaining some of the things it does to be a good neighbor and employ the best technology:
Air Emission Reduction Activities
Southwestern Energy reduces emissions by complying with applicable federal and state regulations and participating in voluntary emission reduction programs. As part of our best management practices, we use equipment and design facilities which meet or exceed the regulatory and permit requirements, including:
- Implementing green completions that minimize venting of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and methane during well completion
- Using “ultra lean” burning engines which limit NOx emissions
- Installing additional catalyst banks on engines controlled with catalyst
- Using closed loop systems for gas recovery from engine blowdowns
- Using flash tanks and vapor recovery systems on glycol reboilers
- Using vapor recovery systems on condensate storage tanks
- Using electric drive compression
- Using FLIR camera to survey facilities, take direct measurements and identify fugitive emissions containing VOCs and methane
EPA Natural Gas STAR
Southwestern Energy is also an active participant in the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Natural Gas STAR program. The Natural Gas STAR program is a voluntary program which encourages companies to recover or reduce emissions of methane to the atmosphere. Key voluntary emission reduction activities implemented by Southwestern Energy include:
- Installing flash tank separators on glycol dehydrators
- Using automated compressors to reduce venting
- Installing no bleed pneumatic controls
- Installing air/fuel ratio controllers
- Installing electric or solar powered pumps
In 2009, we reported reduced methane emissions by 2.621 Bcf. We substantially increased our reported methane emission reductions almost three-fold to 7.708 Bcf in 2010. Our 2009 reduction levels in methane emissions is approximately equivalent to off-setting the CO2 emissions from the electricity consumption of 128,665 homes for one year or the annual greenhouse gas emissions for 202,715 cars.
The Clean Air Council orchestra is no match for this superb record. They talk aggregation but what they’re really about is aggravation, nothing more.
Tom
Posted at 20:37h, 23 MarchSo, look who funded the Clean Air Council:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/C3D44E2D07A3583C8525754000586A29
John Trallo
Posted at 00:03h, 24 March..and exactly who funds Energy in Depth who tries to give the impression that they are a ‘grassroots’ organization?
“Energy in Depth is FUNDED by the El Paso Corporation, XTO Energy, Occidental Petroleum, BP, Anadarko, Marathon, EnCana, Chevron, Talisman, Shell, API, the Independent Petroleum Association of America, Halliburton, Schlumberger and the Ohio Oil and Gas Association.
The website for Energy in Depth was registered on February 23, 2009 by the PR firm Dittus Communications. Dittus, which is now known as FD Americas Public Affairs, boasts on its website that “energy clients have formed the backbone of FD Americas Public Affairs’ clientele for more than a decade.” Clients have included Alabama Power, American Energy Alliance, Center for Clean Air Policy, Consumer Energy Alliance, FutureGen, Georgia Power, Independent Petroleum Association of America, Institute for Energy Research, Salt River Project and U.S. Department of Energy. Energy in Depth HIRES locals as bloggers and “political organizers” with varying degrees of credulity and effectiveness”
You also have Ms. Roter’s background wrong, just as you had mine wrong when EID tried to unsuccessfully discredit me. The typical tactic when you can’t defend your position is to levy personal attacks on your opposition. By the way, no one is funding Ms. Roter, myself, or any of the other conerned citizens I know.
And aggregating is the issue. If you can’t evaluate the long term cumulative impact, you can’t possibly make an intelligent and well informed decision, and as we’ve all seen, compressor stations, and the number of them needed, continuously grow as pressure drops off. They also claim that the noise level is 60 db, but fail to say at what distance. 50 feet… 100 feet… 1000 feet… three thousand feet? It makes all the difference.
Now Tom, I honestly don’t expect you to post this, and I’m sure if you do, there will be some lame personal attack on me. That’s okay. Those who know me, know who I am.
PS: Careful Tom, FOIA requests work both ways.
Tom
Posted at 07:02h, 24 MarchHow many times do we have to tell everyone the information about who we are may be found on our website at:
http://eidmarcellus.org/who-we-are-2/
Your disclosure is no great detective work. We’ve said it from the beginning. I also take note you say we got Roter’s background wrong but never explain how or why.
Victor furman
Posted at 08:40h, 24 MarchJohn Trallo is the man who stood up telling a packed audience in LaPorte that he was neutral on drilling but put his presentation on because he wanted to “educate himself and his neighbors” It was the meeting Sherry & I attended where they asked us to sign a petition and write as many names that we could think of on the back telling us not to worry…. we gonna enter them all on line anyway ???? It took two minutes after I got home to google John Trallo and find out not only was he deceptive at the meeting he lied about being neutral as he had signed Walter Hangs Petition to pull the SGEIS, was a member of a couple of anti drill organizations and a member of the quarter acre club. John Trallo has no credibility. Here is the meeting I am talking about…. http://williamahuston.blogspot.com/2011/01/engelderingraffea-debate-in-laporte.html
John Trallo answered so you should read the whole thing because for a man who said he was neutral his response Says it all
John Trallo
Posted at 10:47h, 24 MarchVic, always nice to be remembered.
Now, there were people invited to the presentation in Laporte who were pro, anti, and on the fence. I was the one who invited Terry Engelder, State Rep Tina Pickett, the Sullivan and Bradford County Commissioners, Senator Gene Yaw, and State Rep Garth Everett. All pro industry. Terry Engelder was the only one who graciously accepted. Gene Yaw, Garth Everett, and the Sullivan County Commissioners sat there in the back in silence and slipped out the door quietly when the Q & A began. Pickett and the Bradford Commssioner didn’t respond.
My roll that evening was to be a neutral moderator. A roll that Dr. Engelder claimed I did well, and treated him fairly.
Now, I don’t know who was asking you to sign anything, because I know I didn’t. So, I think you should name who that was, what the petitiion was for, and who initiated it.
When the gas industry first appeared in NEPA, I was encouraged by it, but being curious, I looked into what was going on in other states, and that is what turned me around. That was also before I even heard of Gasland, or Dimock, or EID.
So, you are correct. I am now an NGO, an ‘anti-gasser’, etc. I am in fact, what the industry has made me based on my own observations.
My position on you’re right to lease, or not, has remained the same. You have the right to do whatever you want on your property, as long as you understand that your property rights, just like mine, begin and end at your property line, and as long as what you do on yours does not negatively affect mine… knock yourself out.
And, I am a proud member of, as you put it, the ‘quarter acre club’. You see, I already have what you will never have, no matter how much land, or how much money you aquire. You see… I have “enough”.
Tom
Posted at 10:55h, 24 MarchI’m sure Vic will have some observations on this but you doth protest too much as to your one-time neutrality John.
Victor furman
Posted at 16:26h, 24 MarchI find it amazing that you name people who showed like Senator Yaw and the others but didn’t participate in your meeting for reasons they only know, and then portray them in a suspicious manner :slipping out the door” But what is even more suspicious is how you billed Josh Fox as an event speaker knowing his name would fill your audience yet also knowing well in advance he wouldn’t be there because he was showing his now totally debunked movie “GASLIES”in England. Why were the Saunters there with there infamous brown jug to tell there lies of water contamination with fracking fluids and how their showers left the family passing out on the bathroom floor and leaving strange lesions on their bodies. I know the only true answer…. to further their litigation by drawing public support !
As far as you being a neutral moderator then why did you allow the anti’s who surrounded you in the front to holler obscenities while Terry Engelder was still presenting and Mr. Engelder himself had to stop and do the moderator’s job.
As far as naming who asked me to sign a petition first you tell me who was sitting on my left side in church last Sunday (I can’t) and woukdn’t expect you to know I can only assume it was NYRAD.
I can not speak for your reasons to be against gas but I highly doubt that it is because of what your heard in surrounding states, and then you state never saw Gasland so why was Josh Fox your featured speaker and why did you ask me if I saw Gaslies long before your meeting in Laporte?
You are not a product of what the industry has made you John… sadly enough you are a product of the anti indoctrination process and a targeted member of the 1/4 acre club because they told you there is nothing in it for you. Research outside of your own web sites for some truth. Your side has refused to meet with our side on the simple fear that the truth will cause membership to leave. http://greedylandowners.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=472
John you wrote “My position on you’re right to lease, or not, has remained the same. You have the right to do whatever you want on your property, as long as you understand that your property rights, just like mine, begin and end at your property line, and as long as what you do on yours does not negatively affect mine… knock yourself out” This argument is total BS.John because the subject we are debating is hydraulic Fracturing and I want you to show me where just one gas well fracking process cause anyone water pollution in the United States, You base this entire statement on the fears you have and not the science or the proof of over two million wells drilled without polluting an aquifer.
I am glad you have Enough John… your a lucky guy…. For many people the option to sign a lease is a way to save the family farm,upgrade and produce more for people like you who think milk & veggies come from trucks. You are the greed ones John I got mine and the heck with you is what your saying … I have enough to bad so sad for those who don’t. Thanks for being honest here John you made my day and as Paul Harvey would say at this point “Good Day”
John Trallo
Posted at 04:36h, 25 MarchPerhaps you’re debating hydraulic fracturing, I’m not. My issue is constant noise, dust, reduction of property value, noxious smells, etc. That is what affects my property value, qulaity of life, and way of life… whether the water goes bad, or not. I don’t care if it’s hydraulic fracturing, a 24 hour strip club, or a jelly bean factory. I do not want to live next to it. Call me a NIMBY, and you’d be correct. That is NOT why I moved to a rural area, and NOT the environment I chose to live in. I have ‘enough’ only because I learned a long time ago, that happiness is not having what you want, it is wanting what you have. There will always be somebody who has more, wants more, and will do anything to get more, and they’ll never be satisfied. I’m hardly what anyone would mistake for being rich, or even well off. If anything, I’m probably a financial underachiever.
By the way Victor, what you don’t know about me could fill a library. But you are right about one thing. I am a lucky guy, but only because I’ve been able to earn a living doing what I want working for myself. Not rich, never will be, and could care less, because I’m content with who I am.
As for the Laporte presentation… obvously a highlight for you, Josh was billed as being there because he said he would be. The Sautners were there because they asked to be. Hell, I would have been more than happy to have EID make a presentation…. but, like Tina Pickett, Chesapeake, and Chief, they didn’t respond either [although Chesapeake did have two reps there who declined to participate when asked].
Now, were you paid to be there to take notes for EID, or did you just come to learn?
I have an idea… why don’t you debate me publicly? Or someone else from EID? No other presentors, in a public forum in front of an audience in a neutral venue. Think about it.
Tom
Posted at 06:39h, 25 MarchGlad to hear you admit you’re a NIMBY, John, and your interests are in keeping things as they are, having made your living elsewhere and not giving a hoot how your neighbors have to make their’s. So, so typical!
Mike
Posted at 10:04h, 24 MarchBe fair, Tom. Everything that you allege the Clean Air Council does has been done by the oil and gas industry in spades: support from non-local organizations and their money, scripted witnesses, motivated by personal interested.
I don’t agree with everything or everyone in the anti-frack movement, but at least they’re largely motivated by concerns for personal safety, not greed.
Tom
Posted at 10:43h, 24 MarchSo. those second home owners who don’t want anything happening near them, regardless of the economic impacts on and property rights of their neighbors aren’t greedy by your definition, but landowners and gas companies are? And, what about those Dimock litigants who, against all evidence and all offers of help, are pursuing a lawsuit for big bucks aren’t greedy either suppose. Your name-calling of others as “greedy” adds nothing to the debate, especially when you ignore the obvious.
Mike
Posted at 11:30h, 24 MarchI never said that no home owners were motivated by greed. Maybe some are, but most are looking for some compensation for what they believe is damage to their land. This is for the courts to decide.
Let’s be clear what the motivation of the gas companies is: to make a profit. This is the mandate of corporations. Fair enough. And actually I’m not against fracking. What I object to is the way the gas industry has basically bought off the politicians to ramrod through their agenda, with little effort to investigate the environmental impact of such rapid development.
But — and name I’m going to name-call — I guess that doesn’t concern you because it seems there’s a buck to be made by shills for the gas industry.
Tom
Posted at 12:04h, 24 MarchWhy is profit that ultimately benefits consumers and communities who desperately need wealth creation a dirty word?
John Trallo
Posted at 10:11h, 24 MarchHere is Rebecca Roter’s exact testimony, word for word:
“My name is Rebecca Roter, I have lived at 575 Turnpike Rd Kingsley PA 18826, Susquehanna CO PA since 1986. Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this DEP Hearing about the Angelina Gathering Company’s expansion plans for the Greenzweig Compressor in Herrick Township Bradford CO PA. Compressors emit hundreds of tons per year of air pollution into our regional air mass and cross over county and state lines. I have watched the rapid industrialization of my community and county over the past 3 years by the oil and gas industry’s Marcellus development in rural areas with no zoning. I know people with compressor stations just 300 feet from their homes. You at DEP permit these compressors to dump hundreds of tons per year of carcinogens neurotoxins, hazardous air pollutants or HAPS as you refer to them into our breathing air, into our backyards, into our windows, into our nostrils and into our lungs where chemicals may enter our bloodstream.
I am a necessary sacrifice according to Governor Corbett’s Marcellus advisor Dr Engelder. Industry refers to my yard and my community as an industrial sacrifice zone. ACT 13, HB 1950, recently passed by PA legislators many of whom received campaign contributions from oil and gas, the most powerful industry in the world, effectively puts a gag order on physicians from reporting Marcellus related health complaints to the Dept of Health: the Halliburton loophole is now extended to health care preventing documentation and any retrospective study of Marcellus health complaints.
On my little dirt rd in Brooklyn Township there is a compressor the CENTRAL HP COMPRESSOR currently under construction, it is less than a mile from my home, my Township Super told me I will get noise big time because of how my house is situated in the valley. That compressor will ruin my air quality, and put my health at risk if I do not move. I already smell strange odors around my home ostensibly from nearby flares, well pads, and the Lathrop Compressor when there is inversion and warm weather. Because the CENTRAL HP COMPRESSOR was permitted with a GP-05, which is covert and subverts public participation unlike a Plan Approval, I had to do a file review in Wilkes Barre’s Dep office to see the air quality permit.
Look at me, look at all of us in this room, think of our children, parents, grandchildren, and show us through your actions that DEP does not see us as necessary sacrifices. Require better technologies instead of those that are most cost effective; require the Angelina Gathering Company to participate in EPA’s Star Program, devise a plan to monitor cumulative air impacts from the Angelina equipment at the Greensweig Compressor; ask Angelina if they plan to propose additional equipment to this station or in this area in the future.
I ask that you read the recent study from the Colorado School of Public Health that documents health risks around natural gas well pads, which are exempt from any air quality rules or regulations at the state and federal level. I attached a synopsis of the study at the end of my testimony. Dr McKenzie a lead researcher found significant short term high levels of BTEX, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene around gas wells being finished do present significant public health risks. BTEX are emitted in TPY every day by every single compressor you permit. It is a fact anyone living near or around a compressor will have a higher risk for cancer, asthma, neurological problems, and other health problems as compressors emit substances known to adversely affect human health.
I urge you to do the right thing, show us we are not your necessary sacrifice every time you permit a compressor in our backyards. Unfortunately for you at DEP, ACT 13 means you might be considering compressor permits for your backyard in the near future.”
Air emissions near natural gas drilling sites may contribute to health problems
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120319/Air-emissions-near-natural-gas-drilling-sites-may-contribute-to-health-problems.aspx?page=2
Published on March 19, 2012 at 4:25 AM
In a new study, researchers from the Colorado School of Public Health have shown that air pollution caused by hydraulic fracturing or fracking may contribute to acute and chronic health problems for those living near natural gas drilling sites.
“Our data show that it is important to include air pollution in the national dialogue on natural gas development that has focused largely on water exposures to hydraulic fracturing,” said Lisa McKenzie, Ph.D., MPH, lead author of the study and research associate at the Colorado School of Public Health.
The study will be published in an upcoming edition of Science of the Total Environment.
The report, based on three years of monitoring, found a number of potentially toxic petroleum hydrocarbons in the air near the wells including benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene and xylene. Benzene has been identified by the Environmental Protection Agency as a known carcinogen. Other chemicals included heptane, octane and diethylbenzene but information on their toxicity is limited.
“Our results show that the non-cancer health impacts from air emissions due to natural gas development is greater for residents living closer to wells,” the report said. “The greatest health impact corresponds to the relatively short-term, but high emission, well completion period.”
That’s due to exposure to trimethylbenzenes, aliaphatic hydrocarbons, and xylenes, all of which have neurological and/or respiratory effects, the study said. Those effects could include eye irritation, headaches, sore throat and difficulty breathing.
“We also calculated higher cancer risks for residents living nearer to the wells as compared to those residing further [away],” the report said. “Benzene is the major contributor to lifetime excess cancer risk from both scenarios.”
The report, which looked at those living about a half-mile from the wells, comes in response to the rapid expansion of natural gas development in rural Garfield County, in western Colorado.
Typically, wells are developed in stages that include drilling followed by hydraulic fracturing , the high powered injection of water and chemicals into the drilled area to release the gas. After that, there is flowback or the return of fracking and geologic fluids, hydrocarbons and natural gas to the surface. The gas is then collected and sold.
Garfield County asked the Colorado School of Public Health to assess the potential health impacts of these wells on the community of Battlement Mesa with a population of about 5,000.
McKenzie analyzed ambient air sample data collected from monitoring stations by the Garfield County Department of Public Health and Olsson Associates Inc. She used standard EPA methodology to estimate non-cancer health impacts and excess lifetime cancer risks for hydrocarbon exposure.
McKenzie noted that EPA standards are designed to be public health proactive and may overestimate risks.
“However, there wasn’t data available on all the chemicals emitted during the well development process,” she said. “If there had been, then it is entirely possible the risks would have been underestimated.”
The report concludes that health risks are greater for people living closest to wells and urges a reduction in those air emissions.
McKenzie said future studies are warranted and should include collection of area, residential and personal exposure data where wells are operating. Additional studies, she said, should also examine the toxicity of other hydrocarbons associated with natural gas development.
Source: University of Colorado Denver
Tom
Posted at 10:51h, 24 MarchThank you so much, John! I wanted a copy of this. Note the opening line where she asserts she lives in Kingsley. If that’s so, why do she and her husband have an expensive 5-bedroom home in Bucks County where they’ve sent their children to school? I’m sure they do more than store the Ferrari there. Maybe they store gasoline there given these vehicles have an “atrocious appetite for benzina.” See also, this piece: http://shambook.blogspot.com/2008/03/meditations-on-very-bad-career-move.html
John Trallo
Posted at 10:18h, 24 MarchTom, you’re correct. I didn’t say how you got Rebecca’s background wrong, and I’m not about to. If you’re that interested, you figure it out.
Also, I never claimed to be doing ‘detective work’. I was sinmply pointing out that EID is NOT a grassroots organization, and that you’re position is blatantly biased as EID was founded by the energy industry, for the energy industry, funded by the energy industry, to promote the energy industry, and to combat any regulatory opposition in the legislature that is supposed to represent the people who elect them.
Tom
Posted at 10:52h, 24 MarchAnd, you’re not biased, of course, are you, John?
John Trallo
Posted at 11:59h, 24 MarchI am now. I’m just not paid to be. EID, on the other hand is paid to be biased. It is in fact, you’re job. It’s also a ‘job’ that would not exist if the industry had nothing to hide, and people like myself who simply question this industry and express legitimate concern about our families health and safety weren’t affecting public opinion. You attempt to marginalize us, yet your ‘job’ is proof that we are being taken seriously. Even the most obtuse can see the irony in that.
If you were shown any concrete evidence that any aspect of gas drilling was a threat to public health and safety, would you: a) admit it? b) resign your position with EID? c) retract your unbridled support for the oil and gas industry?
And, I’m not biased against the gas and oil industry per say. I am, and have always been, biased against any entity that tries to infringe upon my rights as a property owner. Be it gas, cotton candy, or any other industry that thinks they’ve the right to do whatever they want.
And… I posted her response with her consent… and you still have your information wrong.
Tom
Posted at 12:06h, 24 MarchCheck the Bucks County tax records, John! Are do you just take it for granted she lives in Kingsley because she told you so?
Victor furman
Posted at 16:31h, 24 MarchI am not paid John yet everything you have said I can debunk because your nonsense falls apart a lot quicker then the truth.
Victor furman
Posted at 14:03h, 24 MarchTom
Why bother – the BS only gets deeper with Trallo. Unless you plan to drown him in it, it isn’t worth the time.
John Trallo
Posted at 18:20h, 24 MarchTom,
No. I take nothing for granted, but I have been to her home.
Vic, you’re a good soldier! You stick with the talking points, the pattern of personal attacks when you have nothing else. Sad, really.
That being said, I really do hope you aquire all the wealth in the world, or whatever makes you less angry… as long as it doesn’t infringe on others.
Tom
Posted at 19:05h, 24 MarchActually, Vic only defends. He never attacks.
John Trallo
Posted at 13:30h, 25 MarchLet’s see …. name calling ie: enviros, NGO’s, NIMBY’s, tree-huggers, 1/4 acre club, attempted character assasination, stereo-typing, liars, etc.
Doesn’t sound like a defense to me. Even one of your pro-drilling commentors finds the name calling distasteful:
Mike
March 24, 2012
“I never said that no home owners were motivated by greed. Maybe some are, but most are looking for some compensation for what they believe is damage to their land. This is for the courts to decide.
Let’s be clear what the motivation of the gas companies is: to make a profit. This is the mandate of corporations. Fair enough. And actually I’m not against fracking. What I object to is the way the gas industry has basically bought off the politicians to ramrod through their agenda, with little effort to investigate the environmental impact of such rapid development.
But — and name I’m going to name-call — I guess that doesn’t concern you because it seems there’s a buck to be made by shills for the gas industry.”
Personally, I find it divisive, non-productive, and juvenial.
Now, when and where are we going to have a public debate?
Tom
Posted at 19:03h, 25 MarchSorry, John, but we are only stating the facts and calling someone a NIMBY is hardly character assasination.
John Trallo
Posted at 01:01h, 28 MarchYou’re right! I am a NIMBY. It’s not an insult. That’s why I live in NEPA. Because I did not want to live in an industrial zone. Get it? You, apparently don’t want undeveloped land in your backyard. So, we’re both NIMBY’s.
Hey, I really wish I could be at Bloomsburg Univ. to witness the debate between you and Tony Ingraffea, and the DEP, but I’ll be out of town.
http://organizations.bloomu.edu/gci/shale.php
Tom
Posted at 06:22h, 28 MarchCall it what you want but NIMBYism is what it is – a desire to stop something from happening regardless of the need.
Bill ferullo
Posted at 16:39h, 26 MarchTom this is in response about the DEP meeting in Herrickville ,PA on March 22,2012.I was one of the people who asked questions and commented on the compressor and I also testified .I want you to know that even though I have a so called accent from the NJ/NYC area, I have lived in Warren township,Pa Bradford county for 38 years .Also a couple of the others that spoke up are also residents one for 40 years also from Warren Township and another couple who moved from Vestal,NY over 30 years ago.I believe you should find out the facts before you distort them on this website.Anyone that believes this post above will not be getting the truth of what happened at the meeting in Herrickville.GET this facts straight Tom before you spin them,OK……..
Tom
Posted at 17:20h, 26 MarchI am pleased to let your comments speak for themselves.
Bill Ferullo
Posted at 19:48h, 26 MarchTom the compressor in Herrickville is only about 7 1/2 miles from my home and I felt I had ever right to comment on it’s expansion.I also think the aggregate comment brought up by the Clean Air Council was a major concern which was brought to my attention the night of the meeting.If the Nat Gas industry is so responsible as they claim then their responsibility should be more then a bunch of words …….also my comment about the location of the compressor being surrounded by mountains and the increase of pollution it will give off becoming more condensed due to the topography is sound and logical .Moisture alone is condensed in this area all the time and adding more pollution to this moisture (Dew) will only increase health concerns…….
Tom
Posted at 19:59h, 26 MarchThe inversion question is interesting and I don’t have an answer on that but I think it presumes there is significant emissions that don’t exist. Also, you have to admit 7.5 miles is a long way. Do you really think that one engine, with all its pollution control equipment, is going to affect you that far away, Bill?
Anyway, thanks for the comment. These are the kinds of things that are worth discussing it seems to me.
Bill Ferullo
Posted at 20:04h, 26 MarchTom I would also like to say that you call people Nimby’s and said at the meeting that you wish you had the Nat gas we have in Bradford county down where you live.I agree with you 100% on this comment I wish it were down where you live also .Then you might just begin to change your tune a little when you live amongst the drilling not just promote it…….LOL
Tom
Posted at 20:21h, 26 MarchNow, I know you’re talking tongue-in-cheek, but still …
Bill Ferullo
Posted at 20:17h, 26 MarchTom yes I do believe addition to this compressor will add to the overall pollution.We will have a compressor over here only about 3 miles too.I have 34 nat gas pads within a 4 mile radius of my home ,each will have at least 6 wells on it.I also have 4 impoundment ponds ranging from 3/4 mile to 4 miles around my home.The other night I took pictures of the huge clouds of silica sand dust that was produced from the pad just about 1900 feet from my house.If you want this type of living you are welcome to it all.It really shocks me how many people that support Nat Gas drilling don’t live anywhere near where it is going on and these same people have the most praise for it’s benefit.I would gladly give up the 24/7 sound of trucks going by my home and the disruption Nat gas drilling has created around my township and the surrounding townships.I will be involved in monitoring this gas industry here and also in Herrickville .The air,water and soil will be constantly checked this is a promise you can count on.
Tom
Posted at 20:25h, 26 MarchWe all want things checked and done correctly, Bill. We can all agree on that one, for sure. I must say as drove to the meeting the other night I saw a thriving rural area that was still beautiful. That’s my impression. I did get delayed behind one truck but that was it, as far as inconvenience. Obviously, that’s not the same as living there and I accept that, but I think most of my neighbors would gladly trade with you for the prosperity.
Victor Furman
Posted at 20:54h, 26 Marchholy cow bat man they’re coming out of the fracking woodwoork
fear not robin….set your bat tazzzzzer to BS distorter and give’em a full shot
Bill
Posted at 21:09h, 26 MarchTom when you drove to the meeting the other night you did not drive through were I live .Warren Township,Orwell,Windham,and Pike township .this area of approximately 10 miles by 10 miles has 120 dr don’t live ill pads plus impoundments and staging areas and more .Herrickville is nothing as far as drilling pads go compared to here.also you want trucks and traffic got that too.Flaring is being done on at least 3 pads right now .Like I said above when you don’t live the drill you shouldn’t promote what you don’t see.I’ll take you up on your word of wanting things checked and done correctly .Like I told the DEP we will be monitoring the drillers closely more and more all the time and documenting it all.Just trying to keep them held to their word………the health and environment are worth much more then jobs to us…you see.and let me ask you do you have trucks coming pass your house 24/7 even Sunday like they do here quite often sometimes everyday for weeks non stop.None of these officials or politicians that support Nat gas drilling would accept this being done in their neighborhoods why should I accept it in mine…….
Nicole
Posted at 22:06h, 26 MarchBill, Tom may not live in an active natural gas development region because he is unfortunately in the DRBC, but he has leased his land and awaits regulation to be passed. I, on the other hand, do. We are a leased property in Penn Township, Lycoming County, yet to be placed in a unit with development happening all around us. Some of my neighbors were even just seen in a CNN story, all supportive of the industry. I also know elected officials and individuals with DEP leased and in some cases with development on their properties. To say they support it because they don’t live it is completely inaccurate. Am I a fan of the increased traffic, nope, but I know a lot of the drivers and am happy to see them able to provide a sustainable (and then some!) income to support their families. I know a family in the Wyalusing area with 3 compressor stations on their property and they’re okay with it all too. Your opinion is the minority in Pennsylvania and especially in Bradford County.
Carolyn Knapp
Posted at 21:57h, 26 MarchI am sorry that I did not attend the Hearing. I had intended on doing so but at the last minute my township decided to call a special meeting concerning Act 13: a/k/a, Chump Change Fee- Part A; Take Away Local Control to Have it Your Way – Part B.
Had I been there I am sure the EID mouthpieces would have labeled me as an outsider because although I have lived in NEPA for over a quarter of a century my children still say I have a weird accent. Does that make me less important? I guess those at EID believe so. I find it hard to believe that if there were really important issues to be addressing concerning the hearing that you would be taking the time to focus on such things as “accents”. Doesn’t your employer expect better results?
By the way, I do not believe the author of the article, an EID spokesperson, most likely salaried, was a local. Did he have any other EID reps with him?
If the object of this article was to make people hesitant to testify at hearings because you chose to spend time to try to discredit them, you failed!!! I am proud that people showed up, even if you think it was “small”, they came to hear the details and voice their concerns.
I have been to the Clean Air Council’s workshop and they always have residents draft their comments IN THEIR OWN WORDS & BASED ON THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES. Clean Air Council did not participate in “scripting” and “orchestration.” Be careful in your accusations when it can be proven that EID practices what it is accusing others of doing.
Clean Air Council’s role in helping residents to understand the issue and support their concerns is necessary. EID is indisputably given the support of the industry and definitely “coached” and instructed how to craft comments and testimony that influence decisions on numerous matters. Why should the industry be allowed to have an unfair advantage?
We all hope when DEP acts on this permit, that they will look at ALL the science not just the science that SWN and EID have supplied to them. After all the Department of Environmental Protection’s mission is to protect Pennsylvania’s air, land and water from pollution and to provide for the health and safety of its citizens through a cleaner environment.
If Southwestern has such a superb record why do they need to bring in the big guns (EID) to defend them?
P.S. To save on your work, you have already investigated me and have failed in reporting the “truth” I have the evidence so don’t attempt to go there again.
Tom
Posted at 23:01h, 26 MarchThis comment certainly speaks for itself and the reader can be the judge of its credibility. However, I want to make it explicitly clear we did not consult with Southwestern Energy or even inform the company in advance regarding our attendance at this hearing. Moreover, Southwestern is not a financial supporter of our program. Our attendance was purely in support of the application on its merits, recognizing the importance of such infrastructure projects to the community and the industry.
Bill
Posted at 17:58h, 27 MarchNicole my first response is addressed to you.Living in Lycoming county gives you very little insight to the actual drilling impact .Please don’t try to rationalize Nat gas drilling to me when you have no idea.When you have the drilling around you that I have here where I live I will only then be open to your advice.Until then I suggest a tour to where the drilling is being done heavily .Again people who do not live where drilling is being done on a large scale shouldn’t be advising others on what they think.
Nicole
Posted at 09:44h, 30 MarchVery little insight? Really Bill? That’s a bit pompous, don’t you think? I live in Penn Township. We have development all around us. We also have a good deal of the companies setting up their offices here in the county so get the same truck traffic. First you say you won’t listen to anyone not in impacted regions, then it’s no one outside of Bradford Co when someone who has the same experiences challenges you. We actually had the second most wells drilled last year and the 3rd total overall in this region. And I have been on tours throughout Bradford Co. It looks the same as home. On top of that I shared a link with you from a family in Wyalusing with 3 compressor stations on their property. Are they not impacted enough for you?
Bill
Posted at 18:16h, 27 MarchTom S . in my other comment the other day I forgot to mention that I have friends in Herrickville that will be impacted by the expansion of the compressor .One person I know has 2 impoundment ponds and a well pad at the end of his driveway right across the road maybe 600 -700 feet from his home.He also is only about 1500 -2000 feet (maximum) from the compressor.He is surrounded by the gas drilling and will be one of the people heavily impacted by the extension .I know you support this drilling for gas (like many others who think they know) because you have your financial future in mind and I can see your interest. I too supported the drilling back in 2009 thinking it would make me rich,but since then I have become much more educated on the reality that Nat gas brings to an area.I agree that it has brought prosperity to some by creating jobs and increasing profits from business ,but has also changed the area here and caused major disruption to the area that once was a quiet pollution free place.Believe what I’m telling you it is only the truth.So getting back to the point of you feeling that I and the other people that came to the meeting were outsiders putting in our two cents ,I say we did have a concern for ourselves and the people that live close to this expansion.By the way you also were an outsider putting in your two cents too so the door swung both ways that night.When you report on a gas drilling happening you need to stop being so one sided in your writing.Only those that support your cause believe what you print.
Tom
Posted at 21:01h, 27 MarchActually, Bill, what I see is prosperity and it extends throughout every aspect of Bradford and Susquehanna Counties. When a young kid can get a decent job and not have to leave the area, it is everything.
Bill
Posted at 01:16h, 28 MarchTom …..Not everything only you see it that way! 25000 gallons of chemical per frac job is not my opinion of everything .Pollution in our pristine air is not everything and disruption of the tranquil and peacefulness we once had is’t everything, not to mention the health and water problems too.Is a job worth our water,absolutely not .Prosperity is not always what it turns out to be,many times it is the reverse!The jobs will come and go our health and environmental damage will not………..
Tom
Posted at 06:24h, 28 MarchThere’s nothing more important to your health than having a good job and nothing more important to a clean environment than a healthy economy. That’s been proven time and again.
Carolyn
Posted at 19:03h, 29 MarchWhere is the scientific evidence that shows what you assert as proven? What is your definition of a “good job”? What is your definition of a “healthy economy”? There is no doubt in my mind that we in NEPA are destined to become expendable for the good of the country, if every continues as planned. Many proponents of natural gas have openly stated this. A healthy economy and a clean environment is not one in which we decide that there will be an acceptable level of expendable people. The majority of the jobs being generated by the natural gas industrialization of rural land are not long term sustainable employment opportunities.By long term I mean one in which a young person can start work in today and expect to retire in 35 years with a pension and health benefits and not die at a youg age or be on oxygen for their retirement years or earlier. Show me the statistics from other “plays” in the country that have generated “long term sustainable” jobs with good outcomes and then we can talk good jobs.
Bill
Posted at 09:52h, 28 MarchProven by whom! This type of generalization is of no merit when people’s health and the destruction of our environment apply.Jobs will never be more important then our health jobs are temporary our health is our life.Many people are being affected by health issues connected to Nat gas drilling if you were one of them you would sing a different song !A little foresight needs to be applied in this issue! Some day possibly you will understand.
Tom
Posted at 05:04h, 29 MarchYour comments are increasingly bizarre, Bill, and you rely more and more on unproven assertions.
Bill
Posted at 03:45h, 29 MarchThis is what happens when they Frac it is silica dust it causes silicosis .This is happening all over PA .and everywhere they frac. Take a look at the reality of Nat gas drilling…. http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dplayer_detailpage%26v%3DAz84Vfa1eMY&h=nAQHnRN2PAQEchDN9G-7ly-DbbHZNSoWR22WsNh3sjvTo5A
Bill
Posted at 15:57h, 29 MarchTom my comment are not bizarre and all are based on actual on the scene experiences….All.I live surrounded by Nat Gas drilling everyday .All I try to do is warn people of it’s problems .No lies …..and at my age health and environment is so much more important to me then money.I’m not saying money is bad just that greed is.Chose your own way I have chosen mine.Nice talking with you…!